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Trade mania is maddening
It is not that I do not think the Tigers should make a trade at the deadline. It is not that I think they are a perfect team that does not need any improvements. It is not that I do not subscribe to the theory that if something falls into their lap, the Tigers should take full advantage of it. It is just that when a club is 5.5 games better than any other team in the major leagues, it does not have to act out of desperation. The last thing I want to see from the Tigers is making a trade just for the sake of making a trade. They need a left-handed hitting first baseman to platoon with Chris Shelton sometimes and DH others. Somebody who makes consistent contact. They could also use bullpen depth. Sure, they could use Soriano. Any team could. But at what cost? It is alarming how much rhetoric is bantered about the Tigers' prospects when so few people know much about them. They get fixated on a name - such as Humberto Sanchez - and act as if he is the only prospect that would appeal to other teams. There is also this notion the Tigers have unlimited pitching depth. They do not. Their depth is good, but they are in no position to just give it away. The Tigers are playing from ahead. Everybody wants to be them. They should realize that and not do something stupid at the trade deadline. I do not believe they will.
Random thoughts
- Todd Jones' velocity is up to 93 mph consistently again. He is pitching very well lately. The best thing he has been doing is getting ahead of hitters early in the count.
- Jim Leyland can downplay it all he wants, but the Tigers wins Wednesday and Thursday were huge. That was especially true Thursday when the Tigers made clutch-play after clutch-play (Thames' slide, Ordonez's running catch, Pudge's good situational hitting, Rogers' bulldog effort). That is the type of game, dare we say, championship-caliber teams win.
- The one play I know I will never see in a major league baseball game: Marcus Thames doubling down the right field line.
Random thoughts
- Todd Jones' velocity is up to 93 mph consistently again. He is pitching very well lately. The best thing he has been doing is getting ahead of hitters early in the count.
- Jim Leyland can downplay it all he wants, but the Tigers wins Wednesday and Thursday were huge. That was especially true Thursday when the Tigers made clutch-play after clutch-play (Thames' slide, Ordonez's running catch, Pudge's good situational hitting, Rogers' bulldog effort). That is the type of game, dare we say, championship-caliber teams win.
- The one play I know I will never see in a major league baseball game: Marcus Thames doubling down the right field line.
posted by Pat Caputo at
4:53 AM
19 Comments:
Hey Pat,
Great series for the tigers, I just have a couple things to mention.
Is there anything better than thaving rogers pitch 6 or 7 then bringing in zumaya, I mean really, does the batter even have a chance? Just an absolute blast to watch.
I'd like to see the tigers actually go ahead in games, i know its a crazy idea, but it seems like every game since the break we've been playing from behind until the late innings.
Listened to your show last night (great show) and the who would you start for one game and why topic. I think its Verlander. The main reason goes to one game. I believe it was against minnesota and may have even been against Santana, Verlander goes 8 or 9 shutout innnigs without getting a strikeout, just an incredible performance, the guy can throw and win even when he doesn't get the Ks.
My main point in bringing up your show last night was i wanted to turn your question around on you. Up by one, playoffs on the line, thome-konerko-dye to bat in the ninth, who closes? I know in your blog you said jones is pitching better, but come on. I wasn't able to watch the game but I heard yesterdays on the radio, and from the sounds of it every out he got was long fly ball if not warning track, that guy scares the crap out of me.
Again, good series, lets hope there's no let down against the A's.
quote from a friend of mine:
So, the Todd Jones Strikeout is a fly-ball to the warning track, right?
I would be reluctant to trade anyone. This team deserves to play out the season together. They may not win it all but have played hard and gave the owner and fans an exciting year. It may be in the cards that Mr. Shelton will finish a little like he started. Me thinks Mr. Shelton swings too hard, like I do with the driver in golf. Vinny:
Pat,
You mention picking up another reliver. Any thoughts on Mike Gonzalez out of Pittsburgh. He's had a couple of so so years after a really good 2004. He'd give us another left handed arm out of the pen (think Bill Scherer in 1984). My concern is, since he's closed, he might command a premium and the price could be too high.
Then again, Jamie Walker hasn't been used much this year, so I guess I'd be worried he wouldn't be used. That would give us five solid options out of the bullpen though (or six or seven depending on how you feel about Grilli and Ledezma).
Speaking of the pen, I think Leyland is doing a great job managing it. I don't like the fact that Ledezma hasn't gotten many innings since he got called up (I liked your commentary about him on the radio last night and still think he could do something good), but since we're in a playoff race, you have to go with your horses and he's kind of an odd man out.
Also, I might be one of the few people who like Todd Jones closing games. Yeah, he's prone to give up a hit or two, but when you come in with nobody out and nobody on in the ninth, that shouldn't normally cost you a ball game. I'd much rather see him coming into that situtation then with two men on and one out in say the seventh inning, which is where Zumaya excels because he's got a better then average chance of getting a strikeout.
nick p,
one of the funniest things is hearing national baseball media types suggest the tigers trade zumaya. come on. one of those national guys is steve phillips, who kind of retracted his ridiculous zumaya for for smoltz statements while doing the game for espn thursday. verlander falls under the same category. they are about touchable as can be. same with bonderman. oh, and quit revealing my topics for future radio shows.
caputo
anonymous,
my point exactly. we see these guys play every day and all their flaws, but look at the results. everybody wants to be the tigers right now. they're 5.5 games better tnan anybody else. the grass is not always greener with other team's ball players. i think the cliche "he is pressing" describes shelton's biggest issue right now. he swings at pitches he should not too much, and lets too many good pitches go by. but that was a big hit thursday, and he has a few lately.
caputo
brian,
gonzalez has a really good arm, but command issues. relievers who walk guys scare me and the couple times i've seen him pitch this season, he walked guys. he's the pirates closer and is having a decent season, but is not so good they wouldn't part with now that he is going to eligible for salary arbitration and a big raise it brings during the off season.
caputo
Pat,
What do you think happened to Gonzalez? In 2004, his walk rate was awesome (6 walks in over 40 innings). Now it's pretty bad.
I agree with everything being said. THere are tons of people out there so quick to jump. There is even a guy on your station (Carsh) that would trade at the drop of a dime. The Tigers are the best team in baseball and have been for how long now. NObody expected them to be right where they were at this time. Nobody! If they say they did then they are full of crap. I bet teams think the tigers are still the big goofy run (randy smith) team and are going to part ways with a verlander or zumya. How crazy can you be. HEck with Sanchez waiting in the winds to be this years verlander or zumya why trade him if he is that close. You can always add help and to me there is plenty out there that you can go and get to help this club with out selling the farm. Heck if you want soriano that bad make a run at him next year.
Guys to look at in my book are: Hillenbrand, maybe a ty wiggington, a jeremy burnitz someone you can get cheap. because I have this guy feeling Demitri is going to come back with something to prove and be successful. I think Miller could be a Verlander in the making so in two years a rotation of Bonderman, Verlander, sanchez, and Miller we re looking at the best rotation in baseball possibly. why get rid of it. Especailly when we are hurting.
Book...
Do you see the Tigers doing what the Sox did last year with their closer role? Dustin Hermanson was virtually LIGHTS OUT last year and near the end of the season and through the playoffs Jenks started to take over. I think Zumaya's performance yesterday was very telling. He stood up to the kings of baseball and looked like a champ. I believe you said it best the other day, "We have the ultimate intimidator" in Zumaya. He is like Rick Vaughn from Wild Thing when he comes into the game...I dont see how EVEN IF Jonesy stays around 93 with his pitchs that we fall back on him come october.
Hello Pat,
I agree with you in regards to the trade situation. What I see is a market that right now that would have us give up way to much for example to rent Soranio for 2-3 months or spend way to much cash for an Abreu who seemlingly doesnt want to be here.
I would also love to see Nick Johnson here but because of the extention he signed earlier this year he may be too costly if the Nationals would trade him at all.
Looking at other midlevel possibilites like Matt Stairs, Todd Walker, David Delucci to me do not provide a Signifcant upgrade over what we have. Of course if we are adding them to the line up and not getting rid of anybody then are you really going to be able to find the playing time for them to again make the trade worth it.
In other words I feel if we cannot make a major trade its not worth making a trade at all.
As for Pitching the only trade they should make is Getting Sanchez up here from Toledo so we can use him out of the pen or as a spot starter if needed along with Maroth coming back.
What do you think?
the interesting thing is this we have so much extra pitching and since so many teams need pitching I do think something unexpected will happen. I do think one of the teams in contention will sell there soul to us for some pitching like a Tata or ledezma for an impact player. If it doesnt happen that will be fine but I like the odds.
jason.
agree with you about zumaya, but jones has been good lately. also, zumaya's role is just as important. he either works two innings at a time or is called in the middle of innings to put out fires.
caputo
anonymous,
as i write this saturday morning, the tigers are 6 1-2 games up on the white sox for the division and 9 up on the yankees for the wild card and 9 1-2 games up on the twins. if they have a similar lead nearing the deadline, i don't think the tigers make much of a splash. if they start to falter and/or dmirti young slumps, i expect them to be more active.
caputo
madsog52,
can you imagine if miller is, indeed, that good. bonderman, verlander and zumya could be hudson, zito and mulder or glavine, smoltz and maddux. and with zumaya in the bullpen. the tigers could be awfully strong for years to come.
caputo
On that note Verlander? The guy is tied for first with the best record in baseball 12-4. He is still pitching over 90 miles hour from 1st inning to he leaves the ball game. HE is second in the league in ERA. Personally I don't really think there has been a more consistent starter in the majors over the past couple of months. Why is it that when they talk about Cy Young and R>O>Y> they talk about Lariano or Paplebomb what ever his name is. Personally why couldn't Verlander be in the CY Young talk. He is on pace to win over 20 games. He doesn't look like he needs rest to me. Hands down in my book he is R.O.Y.
More of a concern right now than a big left handed bat is another starting pitcher that can eat innings. We're going to need about 6 or 7 more starts from today's spot before Moroth comes back, and it's obvious Minor and Ledezma combo isn't cutting it. Having that veteran arm as a backup wouldn't be a bad thing. Lower level minor league prospects should be the bargaining chip.
tom,
I agree the fifth spot is a danger zone, but they do have the options of jordan tata and humberto sanchez in toledo and will likely give those guys a crack at it first.
caputo
jeff,
honestly, the trade talk is out of control. most of it doesn't make sense. i'd never say never, but i would be surprised if they make a head-spinning trade at deadline, especially if they are up a lot of games.
caputo
I agree these calls on D. Willis, and other rediculous trades are crazy. Tigers have the best RA. We are the only team under 400 Runs allowed. Do I think Miner is the guy to take you into the post season. Absolutely not based off his last couple of performances. I wouldn't mind us getting a guy for pitching debth. Like a Mike Gonzalez if avail. From Pittsburgh or even a borowski if you can steal them. Bowden thinks because his players are one of the few avail. He can rip the tigers off. Why trade potential All Stars for a couple of months. Personally I'd like to see this:
Get a relief guy for bull pen help down the stretch. My mind starters are ok. I like the idea of going with the hot hand. Bring up Tata maybe give sanchez a spot start.
Offensively I'd like to see Shelton get a wake up call for a couple of weeks before the stretch (like Monroe, Pena, Inge) in AAA to work on his string. Those guys in AAA seem to be able to work out the kinks good. IF you are going to add. Add debth. I am not sure about Delluchi. I like Todd Walker if we could wing him.
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